Lecture � Society of mind

Greg Detre

Wednesday, March 19, 2003

 

Steve Larson: maths as existing outside a consistent formal system?

pain as being an obstacle to other goals

drugs to keep awake

ideonomy � Dexadrone � Patrick Gunkel

new drug that keeps pilots awake for 36 hours

students taking crushed Ritalin

Jonathan Grover: mefanol??? mefadanol???

sees Chomsky as a neo-behaviourist in terms of not producing ideas that are powerful enough to explain linguitstic phenomena

pain asymbolia � lesion cingulate gyrus

discussing non-expressed genes:

difficult for evolution to weed them out

backups, residues from other animals

apparently the frugal fish doesn�t have introns

neither do bacteria, apparently

how did the foogoo(sp???) (zebra fish???) get rid of its non-expressed (introns) genes??? how big is its genome???

he doesn�t consider there to be a neuroscientific theory of LTM

he doesn�t think you can get very far bottom-up without some good architectural ideas about what to look for at the middle-level�

he asks: what�s a low-resolution representation of 1000 statements in English?

apparently adults can learn a new language faster than children � if you go on an intensive 3-month course � learning 50 words a day

the child has to learn the concepts at the same time, whereas adults already have them

there are certain things (like accents) that adults can�t learn

the adult is spending all day every day learning the language, whereas the child is presumably only hearing people every so often

harder to do maths in a foreign language (even if you learned it in your teens) � hmmmm

the numerals don�t change � perhaps it�s harder to relearn the associations

then what about people who learn a language with different numeral shapes???

refce: stanislas dehaene, �the number sense � how the mind creates mathematics� � apparently, argues innateness of the number line (for example) as a cognitive structure � that sounds very plausible

Minsky to his daughter � �if you do that, I won�t give you your allowance for 6 weeks� � �you�ll forget�

when people are hypnotised and someone�s telling you something, you can edit their memories � now, you can use hypnosis for clues, but not for evidence

story about a guy who hypnotises and asks his student to regress to 6 years old, handwriting changes etc. � then he tells the student to �pregress� 10 years into the future, and the guy describes what he�s doing, and the case he�s had that day etc.

flashbulb memory?

study asking people where they were during 9/11, but they were completely inaccurate

the problem with asking people about JFK�s death is that they�ve rehearsed their answer so many times

re Ron Hubbard and childhood abuse � they can almost never find the room that�s been described as where it happens

very hard to find reliable memories laid down before 5 or so (infantile amnesia)

 

most reasoning by analogy, rather than formal deduction

after, you construct a logical story

but he thinks that we are capable of doing logical reasoning

common sense knowledge has too many exceptions for deductive to be useful

deductive logic isn�t something that we�re good at

presumably we have a module that gets better at clean abstract deductive reasoning over a lifetime

I think he does think that we�re ultimately capable of deductive reasoning though

 

children don�t have a (uniform) sense of time

 

Piaget apparently didn�t write 2nd drafts, and is usually better in translation J

refce: read Winston�s thesis

 

interesting idea: use legal disclaimers as a source of common sense knowledge J

 

intelligence is when you see someone do something you want to be able to do

cs as all the things that don�t need to be said

 

the thing about IQ is that it�s relative to your age � explanation of the Flynn effect � could it be that if everyone�s maturing slower, their IQs will appear to go up??? does that work arithmetically???

how do they even compare IQs today with last century

 

Bettie Edwards � you can�t draw something you recognise � but you can if you just draw the spaces in between!

Galway � Inner tennis � don�t keep your eye on the ball, because by that time it�s too late

 

juggling � start with one ball, look at the top of the parabola, rather than keeping your eye on the ball � then you learn unconsciously to figure out where it�s going to land

 

untrained reflexes c. 0.2s, fastest athletes, 0.15s � false start in the 100m if you go before 0.15s

 

try to hit an imaginary ball 3 inches beyond the white (that way the extensors haven�t started to slow your arm down when you reach your actual white-ball destination)

 

pianist playing skips (large arm movements) � each hand covers an octave, with one octave either side, covering 6 in total, and the remaining 2 which don�t ever get used

 

he thinks there should be a good with 10 great tips for each field � hmmm

they might be good for boostrapping

but most valuable things are hard-earned � Piagetian??? Calvinist J

I�m skeptical about our ability to write down the things we learn

Ed Emberly � drawing tips, �Make a world�

 

he likes the idea of teaching vertical skills (that build on top of prior learning) in schools (where you can generate more and more complexity out of your building blocks)

 

 

Questions for today

Rationality

last week, you said that the reason you weren�t troubled by Godel�s theory is that you consider the brain to be a formal system, but an inconsistent formal system

I don�t understand his answer

are we really �rational� animals??? what would that mean (if we�re inconsistent)???

doesn�t that undermine all thinking/philosophising/discussion, since we have no appeal to consistency as a rational authority???

rationality as more than just a Difference Engine???

you talk a lot about intelligence, but that seems like a much more creative, speculative, forward-looking process than rationality, which is maybe more of a checking, backwards-looking process�???

General cognitive questions

why do we make mistakes???

why would we have evolved to be completely rational � difficult/veiled truth is not adaptive???

why don�t you discuss analogy???

do you think it�s involved in learning???

he does discuss it � where???

Limits of our knowledge

why are some concepts more difficult???

perhaps because it�s difficult to find analogies for them???

do you reckon that we can understand ourselves???

how can our brains represent themselves???

perhaps by abstracting + devolving most of the difficult work to the simulations???

doesn�t it kind of rest on the naturalist premise that the world is describable and discoverable by science�???

Godel

wrt Godel, could it be that we have islands of consistency???

Consciousness

what happens if we put a hard disk in our heads � would it be conscious???

presumably he�d say that if it affects our agents it would be � hang on though, he couldn�t say that, because there are lots of causal events further upstream than my senses that ultimately affect my agents that I�m not conscious of

Common sense

common sense vs intelligence???